OT: Buster Keaton

[Bob]

Anyone else watch the Buster Keaton bio on TCM last nite?
I enjoyed it but have no idea if it was accurate or not.
Very much enjoyed "The Cameraman" (except for the sometimes intrusive
musical score). Fell asleep during "Spite Marriage" so I can't comment on
that - just hope they show it again.
All I can say is that Keaton must have been in superb physical condition to
do all the stunts and running around he did.
I'm not a big silent movie fan but the guy cracked me up.

[James Neibaur]

Post by Bob
Anyone else watch the Buster Keaton bio on TCM last nite?
I enjoyed it but have no idea if it was accurate or not.
Very much enjoyed "The Cameraman" (except for the sometimes intrusive
musical score). Fell asleep during "Spite Marriage" so I can't comment on
that - just hope they show it again.
All I can say is that Keaton must have been in superb physical condition to
do all the stunts and running around he did.
I'm not a big silent movie fan but the guy cracked me up.

The Cameraman and Spite Marriage are both very funny films. His MGM talkies
put him in situations where his comedy seemed out of place (drawing room
farce, dialog exchanges). There are moments of brilliance in all of them,
and they were big successes at the box office (moreso than his classic
silents), but as part of his filmography they were not his best work.

Worth seeing, though. Just don't expect "The General."

I like having everything, so I was glad to finally tape Parlor Bedroom and
Bath, and What No Beer (even though the latter is a pretty lousy movie) to
complete my collection of Keaton MGMs.

JN


JN

[Bob]

Post by James Neibaur
His MGM talkies
put him in situations where his comedy seemed out of place (drawing room
farce, dialog exchanges). There are moments of brilliance in all of them,
and they were big successes at the box office (moreso than his classic
silents), but as part of his filmography they were not his best work.

I caught a couple of his MGM talkies on TCM a while back and, as you say,
they are not his best work.

[teem]

I loved his sutle pratfalls,like with The Cameraman,he & his beau go for a
swim,she steps into the shallow end,he steps into the deep end & disappears
quick!.And whats with that minkey?,that little guy "knew" what was going
on!.

[Joseph V. Borejko]

What about Buster Keaton's appearances in the 1960's Frankie Avalon-
Annette Funicello Beach Movies; which were in the twilight of Buster's
career?

Post by Bob
Anyone else watch the Buster Keaton bio on TCM last nite?
I enjoyed it but have no idea if it was accurate or not.
Very much enjoyed "The Cameraman" (except for the sometimes intrusive
musical score). Fell asleep during "Spite Marriage" so I can't comment on
that - just hope they show it again.
All I can say is that Keaton must have been in superb physical condition to
do all the stunts and running around he did.
I'm not a big silent movie fan but the guy cracked me up.
--
Bob Finnan
http://bobfinnan.com

[m***@yahoo.com]

Having collected every one Buster Keaton's starring sound films, his
MGM features , the Education and Columbia two-reelers I have to be
totally honest and find most of them not as bad as 'legend' has it.
Most are quite funny and worth watching. There are plenty of laughs to
be found.

The one MGM feature I don't like is SIDEWALKS OF NEW YORK. I'm
probably the only person around who doesn't like THE GENERAL all that
much. I'd rather watch THE PASSIONATE PLUMBER any day.

Mister Levity

[James Neibaur]

Post by m***@yahoo.com
The one MGM feature I don't like is SIDEWALKS OF NEW YORK.

I don't mind that one -- as you say, they all have their moments.

Post by m***@yahoo.com
I'm
probably the only person around who doesn't like THE GENERAL all that
much. I'd rather watch THE PASSIONATE PLUMBER any day.

To me that is like preferring Air Raid Wardens to Way Out West, but I
respect your opinion.

JN

[m***@yahoo.com]

Hmmmm. Don't get me wrong THE GENERAL is a beautiful film. Expertly
photograhed and directed with great attention to every detail in each
and every shot. It's just not a very movie, not as funny as THE
NAVIGATOR and SHERLOCK JUNIOR.

Buster's two-reelers from the 20's are the funniest and most cleverest
ever made. I prefer his silent shorts over the features.

Mister Levity

[James Neibaur]

Post by Joseph V. Borejko
What about Buster Keaton's appearances in the 1960's Frankie Avalon-
Annette Funicello Beach Movies; which were in the twilight of Buster's
career?

I thought those appearances were really sad -- seeing this great comic
artist fumbling about a bunch of current pop singers when he once made
classic films.

JN

[mco]

He was living a very modest life towards the end. He must have done
those "beach" movies for the money. During that same period he did lots
of TV commercials -- several of which were very imaginative and funny.

Post by James Neibaur

Post by Joseph V. Borejko
What about Buster Keaton's appearances in the 1960's Frankie Avalon-
Annette Funicello Beach Movies; which were in the twilight of Buster's
career?

I thought those appearances were really sad -- seeing this great comic
artist fumbling about a bunch of current pop singers when he once made
classic films.
JN

[Bob]

Post by mco
He was living a very modest life towards the end. He must have done
those "beach" movies for the money. During that same period he did lots
of TV commercials -- several of which were very imaginative and funny.

Didn't he do a silent Twilight Zone episode?

[James Neibaur]

Post by Bob
Didn't he do a silent Twilight Zone episode?

Yep

JN

[Frank J. Lhota]

Post by Bob
Didn't he do a silent Twilight Zone episode?

The episode was called "Once Upon a Time", first shown December 15, 1961. In
this episode, Buster plays a janitor living in 1890 who accidentally
activates a time travel device and ends up in 1961. The 1890's part of the
episode were done as a silent comedy.

The show was reasonably funny, and making it was a pleasant experience.
Since TZ was produced at MGM, this production reunited Buster with some of
the people he worked with in the 1930's.

[Frank J. Lhota]

He was living a very modest life towards the end. He must have done those
"beach" movies for the money. During that same period he did lots of TV
commercials -- several of which were very imaginative and funny.

Believe it or not, Keaton said he enjoyed making the beach! As modest as the
beach movies were, American International gave him complete control over his
bits. This was a big improvement over his MGM films, where the production
values were very high, but his artistic control was non-existant.

[James Neibaur]

Post by Frank J. Lhota
Believe it or not, Keaton said he enjoyed making the beach! As modest as the
beach movies were, American International gave him complete control over his
bits. This was a big improvement over his MGM films, where the production
values were very high, but his artistic control was non-existant.

It is painful for me to watch this doddering old man fumble about in those
beach pictures, especially with the knowledge that he was once a great
cinematic artist.

But, to be fair, I interviewed Frankie Avalon years ago, and he recalls the
kids on the set were very respectful of Keaton and thrilled to have him in
the pictures. Between takes he would sit and tell stories about the silent
movie days, while the younger actors sat listening in awe.

In an era where something is considered "old" after a year, it is nice to
know that the beach movie youngsters gave Keaton proper respect.

JN

[zol]

Post by James Neibaur

Post by Frank J. Lhota
Believe it or not, Keaton said he enjoyed making the beach! As modest as the
beach movies were, American International gave him complete control over his
bits. This was a big improvement over his MGM films, where the production
values were very high, but his artistic control was non-existant.

It is painful for me to watch this doddering old man fumble about in those
beach pictures, especially with the knowledge that he was once a great
cinematic artist.
But, to be fair, I interviewed Frankie Avalon years ago, and he recalls the
kids on the set were very respectful of Keaton and thrilled to have him in
the pictures. Between takes he would sit and tell stories about the silent
movie days, while the younger actors sat listening in awe.
In an era where something is considered "old" after a year, it is nice to
know that the beach movie youngsters gave Keaton proper respect.

I feel the same way when I watch some of his silent films. I still can't
believe that he had so much control over his films, did all of the stunts,
and made so many great films. I'm kind of a new fan of his, and am catching
up on his work. I am glad that this group and the people in it have clued
me into Buster and his work Thank you!

zol

[m***@yahoo.com]

. I still can't
believe that he had so much control over his films, did all of the
stunts

Buster didn't do the pole vaulting into the girls window in COLLEGE,
that was a double.

Mister Levity

[j***@comcast.net]

Interesting to see in that documentary how his gags were reused by both
the Marx Bros. and Red Skelton. I'm pretty sure he had a hand in some
of that since he's always been rumored to have been an uncredited gag
writer for MGM for a few years.

Also noticed that he was the one who originally staged the "beer
barrels rolling down the hill" gag that was the climax of the Stooges
"Three Little Beers". Was Bruckman involved in either?

Post by Bob
Anyone else watch the Buster Keaton bio on TCM last nite?
I enjoyed it but have no idea if it was accurate or not.
Very much enjoyed "The Cameraman" (except for the sometimes intrusive
musical score). Fell asleep during "Spite Marriage" so I can't

comment on

Post by Bob
that - just hope they show it again.
All I can say is that Keaton must have been in superb physical

condition to

Post by Bob
do all the stunts and running around he did.
I'm not a big silent movie fan but the guy cracked me up.
--
Bob Finnan
http://bobfinnan.com

[Bob]

Post by j***@comcast.net
Interesting to see in that documentary how his gags were reused by both
the Marx Bros. and Red Skelton. I'm pretty sure he had a hand in some
of that since he's always been rumored to have been an uncredited gag
writer for MGM for a few years.

Also shown briefly was the witness chair gag reused by Curly in Disorder In
The Court.

[James Neibaur]

Post by Bob
Also shown briefly was the witness chair gag reused by Curly in Disorder In
The Court.

Yeah, that was in Sidewalks of New York -- co-directed by Jules White, no
less.

It worked a bit better with Curly. Dialog was not Buster's forte.

JN

[j***@comcast.net]

Seems like a lot of silent/early talkie movie gags worked better when
done by the Stooges: the witness chair, Curly and clam chowder...
various pie fights, etc.

Having seen both H. Lloyd and the Stooges version of the magician's
coat gags, I always thought Curly's take was head and shoulders above
Lloyd's.

Post by James Neibaur

Post by Bob
Also shown briefly was the witness chair gag reused by Curly in Disorder In
The Court.

Yeah, that was in Sidewalks of New York -- co-directed by Jules White, no
less.
It worked a bit better with Curly. Dialog was not Buster's forte.
JN

[m***@yahoo.com]

I find they all worked better in the originel silent/early talkie
versions. Billy Beven in WANDERING WILLIES does the clam chowder gag
way better and Lloyd in MOVIE CRAZY builds the magicians coat routine
much, much better with more characterization.

As for Buster in the witness chair, he takes his own fall while Curly
uses a stunt double.

Mister Levity

[m***@yahoo.com]

I find they all worked better in the originel silent/early talkie
versions. Billy Beven in WANDERING WILLIES does the clam chowder gag
way better and Lloyd in MOVIE CRAZY builds the magicians coat routine
much, much better with more characterization.

As for Buster in the witness chair, he takes his own fall while Curly
uses a stunt double.

Mister Levity

[James Neibaur]

Post by m***@yahoo.com
As for Buster in the witness chair, he takes his own fall while Curly
uses a stunt double.

True -- Curly did not have the stunt chops that Keaton did -- but I contend
Curly was better with dialog and thus that routine works better with him.

JN

[m***@yahoo.com]

I respect your opinion, as always, but pLease don't discredit Buster's
handling on diolog, he was very capable when need be. It was his choice
to not be an overly 'talkie' comedian, given the chance.

Take another look at his Columbia short PEST FROM THE WEST the scene
where he's strumming the ukelele and sings is very good...and very
funny too.

Mister Levity

[James Neibaur]

Post by m***@yahoo.com
I respect your opinion, as always, but pLease don't discredit Buster's
handling on diolog, he was very capable when need be. It was his choice
to not be an overly 'talkie' comedian, given the chance.

I respect everyone's opinion, but Keaton's talents really did lie in other
areas. I don't put Curly at the level of Keaton by any means. But Curly
did have a very natural sense of timing in dialog situations, whereas Buster
often seemed ill-at-ease. When comparing the same scene as performed by
Buster in Sidewalks of New York to Curly in Disorder in the Court, Curly
comes off much better. It is more akin to his abilities than to what Buster
was best at doing.

Curly was by no means the master of screen comedy that Buster Keaton was.
But this one scene, which both performed, when compared, comes out in
Curly's favor.

I am currently doing a book on the Keaton-Arbuckle films (now that virtually
all of them are available) and may very well do something on the MGM period
some day.

JN

[m***@yahoo.com]

Looking forward for that! I'll be first in line to buy your new book.
About time a book was written on the Arbuckle-Keaton comedies. They are
a lot of fun to watch and happily most have been recovered and restored
and available on DVD.

Mister Levity

[James Neibaur]

Post by m***@yahoo.com
Looking forward for that! I'll be first in line to buy your new book.
About time a book was written on the Arbuckle-Keaton comedies. They are
a lot of fun to watch and happily most have been recovered and restored
and available on DVD.

Thanks for the kind words. The release is more than a year away (I have a
book on the Bob Hope films coming out this summer). But little has been
written about this period in Keaton's career because most of the films were
lost until only recently. So I thought I'd take a crack at it. People
also forget what a big star Arbuckle was at this time, and how much Keaton
benefited from this introduction to movies.

Doing something on the Keaton MGM period occured to me as a result of the
recent Brownlow documentary on TCM. It is considered a troublesome period
for Keaton, but is nevertheless and interesting one that may deserve
examination. We'll see....

I always wished someone would write a complete film-by-film book on the
Stooges from the Healy days through the features. Not a trivia book, but
something that really examines each short. Films that have withstood the
test of time so successfully should get better critical recognition. I
realize they have had better respect lately than, say, twenty years ago or
so. This is not a project I would be likely to do, but I wish someone
would.

JN

[The Gonzo Lager]

Post by James Neibaur
But little has been
written about this period in Keaton's career because most of the films were
lost until only recently. So I thought I'd take a crack at it. People
also forget what a big star Arbuckle was at this time, and how much Keaton
benefited from this introduction to movies.

There was a great three-part documentary back in the 80s called BUSTER
KEATON: A HARD ACT TO FOLLOW. It covers this period rather well,
citing what a big star Arbuckle was and how that stupid scandal
destroyed him.

Generally speaking, it's pointless to compare Curly to Buster to
Groucho. Each is a superior comic in their own right, each have their
strengths as well as their weaknesses.

Good luck with the book. It sounds very exciting!

The Gonz'

[Bob]

I respect everyone's opinion...

Actually you don't appear to.
You talk down your nose to anyone whose opinion differs from yours.
Not saying you aren't knowledgable but sometimes you are insufferable.

[James Neibaur]

Post by Bob
You talk down your nose to anyone whose opinion differs from yours.

Example?


JN

[Jim Beaver]

Post by Bob

I respect everyone's opinion...

Actually you don't appear to.
You talk down your nose to anyone whose opinion differs from yours.
Not saying you aren't knowledgable but sometimes you are insufferable.

I must have missed those occasions. But then I've only been reading
Neibaur's posts for about ten years. Perhaps you refer to examples prior to
that time.

Jim Beaver

[The Gonzo Lager]

Post by Bob
You talk down your nose to anyone whose opinion differs from yours.

I've discovered it's extremely hard to talk down one's nose. One has
to stand on one's head and then angle it in such a way as to catch the
words in the nostril.

Very difficult to do. If there are any children reading this, please
don't try it at home. Do it in the park where your parents won't see
you.

The Gonz'

[Rob Farr]

Keaton may have had a happier time of it at Columbia if he had followed
Charley Chase's lead and directed other comics as well as starring in his
own series. Lots of the Stooges' routines look like they could have been
created by Keaton. An example: the ice fishing bit in Rockin' in the
Rockies(?...I think that's what it was in).

Rob Farr
www.slapsticon.org

Post by j***@comcast.net
Interesting to see in that documentary how his gags were reused by both
the Marx Bros. and Red Skelton. I'm pretty sure he had a hand in some
of that since he's always been rumored to have been an uncredited gag
writer for MGM for a few years.
Also noticed that he was the one who originally staged the "beer
barrels rolling down the hill" gag that was the climax of the Stooges
"Three Little Beers". Was Bruckman involved in either?

Post by Bob
Anyone else watch the Buster Keaton bio on TCM last nite?
I enjoyed it but have no idea if it was accurate or not.
Very much enjoyed "The Cameraman" (except for the sometimes intrusive
musical score). Fell asleep during "Spite Marriage" so I can't

comment on

Post by Bob
that - just hope they show it again.
All I can say is that Keaton must have been in superb physical

condition to

Post by Bob
do all the stunts and running around he did.
I'm not a big silent movie fan but the guy cracked me up.
--
Bob Finnan
http://bobfinnan.com

[Rob Farr]

"Rob Farr" <***@nine.netcom.com (when replying change nine to ix)>
wrote in message

An example: the ice fishing bit in Rockin' in the Rockies(?...I think

that's what it was in).

Rockin' *Through* the Rockies, knucklehead! It was produced in 1940, so
it's conceivable that Keaton may have wandered over from a neighboring set
and made a few suggestions.

Rob Farr
www.slapsticon.org